Talk:RoundRobin/Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud
BarrelProof moved page Talk:RoundRobin/Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud to Talk:Baseball rubbing mud without leaving a redirect Step of round-robin swap to update for revised RM closure
New page
{{DYK talk|15 October|2009|... that '''[[Baseball Rubbing Mud]]''', used by every team in [[Major League Baseball]] to give [[Baseball (ball)|baseballs]] a rougher texture, originates from a secret location on the [[Delaware River]]?}}
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{{WikiProject Soil |importance=low }}
{{WikiProject Baseball|importance=Low|image=yes}}
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{{Image requested|1=sporting equipment}}
== Image not useful ==
Is the current image ([[:File:Baseball.jpg]]) with or without the rub? Unless we know that, the image is useless. The topic is the rub, and by extension how it affects the ball--the topic isn't "baseballs". A useful image would be a pre- and post-rubbed ball--otherwise it does not illustrate anything about the actual topic of this article. Another useful image would be of the mud itself. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 05:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
== Recent Press - Sports Illustrated ==
Should facts or details from the recent SI article (https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/08/07/baseball-mud-rawlings?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email) be referenced? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.224.137.155|99.224.137.155]] ([[User talk:99.224.137.155#top|talk]]) 02:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
== Requested move 3 April 2026 ==
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. '''Please do not modify it.''' Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] {{strong|after}} discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''
The result of the move request was: '''Moved.''' to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]. Added after I somehow ended up forgetting to specify what move the close was for and then got distracted and didnt file a move requested. Absolute disasterclass. Good wishes to anyone who actually takes it upon themselves to go edit the article to have a broader scope. ([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]]) ⹃[[User:Maltazarian|Maltazarian]] ᚾ[[User talk:Maltazarian|parley]][[Special:Contributions/Maltazarian|investigate]]ᛅ 18:16, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
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[[:Baseball Rubbing Mud]] → {{no redirect|Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud}} – or {{-r|Baseball rubbing mud}}. If this article is about one specific brand of mud, it should use the full brand name. If it's about the mud used for rubbing on baseballs in general, it should use [[WP:SENTENCECASE]]. The Lena Blackburne brand may have a ''de facto'' monopoly at the professional level, but let's not conflate the concepts. Believe it or not, baseballs can be rubbed with unbranded mud! Note that there has been some prior moving of the article relating to this issue. — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 21:45, 3 April 2026 (UTC) — '''''Relisting.''''' [[User:Jeffrey34555|Jeffrey34555]] ([[User talk:Jeffrey34555|talk]]) 22:54, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Support''': {{no redirect|Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud}} for the current article. I'd suggest that in the future the article should be changed to the general topic and then be renamed {{-r|Baseball rubbing mud}}, with a section about the Lena Blackburn product. [[User:SchreiberBike|SchreiberBike ]]|[[User talk:SchreiberBike#top| ⌨ ]] 22:05, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
::If we ultimately want the article to be about the general concept, it would not be difficult to move the brand-specific discussion into a distinct section. FWIW, in a quick web search for "baseball rubbing mud", I was able to find many other brands of baseball (and football) rubbing mud for sale on the market (to the extent that a market is needed to obtain small quantities of appropriately textured mud to rub on balls). I also found an explicit present-tense discussion of non-Blackburne mud in the ''Christian Science Monitor'' article: "Baseball clubs use special mixes - from infield dirt that's mined in New Jersey to a secret rubbing mud found somewhere along the Delaware River." (The Delaware River mud is presumably Blackburne mud, but the New Jersey infield dirt is not.) — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 22:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Move to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]'''. The article should, and does, cover the history and use of mud that is not Blackburne's. [[User:162 etc.|162 etc.]] ([[User talk:162 etc.|talk]]) 16:16, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': {{no redirect|Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud}}, accommodate Lena Blackburne product with a specific section within the article. At the same time, the title should use [[WP:SENTENCECASE]]. -- [[User:Paleorthid|Paleorthid]] ([[User talk:Paleorthid|talk]]) 20:53, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Support''' proposed title. Oppose generic lowercase title. This article is about the specific product, which is decidedly notable; the sources are about the specific brand/operation, not baseball rubbing mud in general. In fact, I don't believe there is a general topic, as this product is pretty singular. A mention of the background that lead to its development and widespread use doesn't invalidate the fact that this article is about the specific product, just provides context. A generic title would be incorrect for the topic of the article. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 04:22, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
*:Meaning, you do not find BarrelProof's observations sufficient evidence that the term natively encompasses several mixes from several locations, indicating baseball rubbing mud mixes beyond just Lena Blackburne product. Mud is such an easily accessible and adoptable material and pitchers love to experiment for effect, I expect the Lena Blackburne permutation to be part a range of formal and informal colloquial mud mixes, with varying mud practices spread across the full geographic range that baseball enjoys. -- [[User:Paleorthid|Paleorthid]] ([[User talk:Paleorthid|talk]]) 21:01, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Move to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]''' and make it more generic. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 14:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
*First, the lede need to be "genericized" and a section created for the Blackburne brand, then '''Support moving to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]'''. Rgrds. --[[User:BX|BX]] ([[User talk:BX|talk]]) 18:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1=
{{WikiProject Soil |importance=low }}
{{WikiProject Baseball|importance=Low|image=yes}}
}}
{{Image requested|1=sporting equipment}}
== Image not useful ==
Is the current image ([[:File:Baseball.jpg]]) with or without the rub? Unless we know that, the image is useless. The topic is the rub, and by extension how it affects the ball--the topic isn't "baseballs". A useful image would be a pre- and post-rubbed ball--otherwise it does not illustrate anything about the actual topic of this article. Another useful image would be of the mud itself. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 05:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
== Recent Press - Sports Illustrated ==
Should facts or details from the recent SI article (https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/08/07/baseball-mud-rawlings?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email) be referenced? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.224.137.155|99.224.137.155]] ([[User talk:99.224.137.155#top|talk]]) 02:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
== Requested move 3 April 2026 ==
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. '''Please do not modify it.''' Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] {{strong|after}} discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''
The result of the move request was: '''Moved.''' to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]. Added after I somehow ended up forgetting to specify what move the close was for and then got distracted and didnt file a move requested. Absolute disasterclass. Good wishes to anyone who actually takes it upon themselves to go edit the article to have a broader scope. ([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]]) ⹃[[User:Maltazarian|Maltazarian]] ᚾ[[User talk:Maltazarian|parley]][[Special:Contributions/Maltazarian|investigate]]ᛅ 18:16, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
----
[[:Baseball Rubbing Mud]] → {{no redirect|Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud}} – or {{-r|Baseball rubbing mud}}. If this article is about one specific brand of mud, it should use the full brand name. If it's about the mud used for rubbing on baseballs in general, it should use [[WP:SENTENCECASE]]. The Lena Blackburne brand may have a ''de facto'' monopoly at the professional level, but let's not conflate the concepts. Believe it or not, baseballs can be rubbed with unbranded mud! Note that there has been some prior moving of the article relating to this issue. — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 21:45, 3 April 2026 (UTC) — '''''Relisting.''''' [[User:Jeffrey34555|Jeffrey34555]] ([[User talk:Jeffrey34555|talk]]) 22:54, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
:'''Support''': {{no redirect|Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud}} for the current article. I'd suggest that in the future the article should be changed to the general topic and then be renamed {{-r|Baseball rubbing mud}}, with a section about the Lena Blackburn product. [[User:SchreiberBike|SchreiberBike ]]|[[User talk:SchreiberBike#top| ⌨ ]] 22:05, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
::If we ultimately want the article to be about the general concept, it would not be difficult to move the brand-specific discussion into a distinct section. FWIW, in a quick web search for "baseball rubbing mud", I was able to find many other brands of baseball (and football) rubbing mud for sale on the market (to the extent that a market is needed to obtain small quantities of appropriately textured mud to rub on balls). I also found an explicit present-tense discussion of non-Blackburne mud in the ''Christian Science Monitor'' article: "Baseball clubs use special mixes - from infield dirt that's mined in New Jersey to a secret rubbing mud found somewhere along the Delaware River." (The Delaware River mud is presumably Blackburne mud, but the New Jersey infield dirt is not.) — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 22:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Move to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]'''. The article should, and does, cover the history and use of mud that is not Blackburne's. [[User:162 etc.|162 etc.]] ([[User talk:162 etc.|talk]]) 16:16, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': {{no redirect|Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud}}, accommodate Lena Blackburne product with a specific section within the article. At the same time, the title should use [[WP:SENTENCECASE]]. -- [[User:Paleorthid|Paleorthid]] ([[User talk:Paleorthid|talk]]) 20:53, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Support''' proposed title. Oppose generic lowercase title. This article is about the specific product, which is decidedly notable; the sources are about the specific brand/operation, not baseball rubbing mud in general. In fact, I don't believe there is a general topic, as this product is pretty singular. A mention of the background that lead to its development and widespread use doesn't invalidate the fact that this article is about the specific product, just provides context. A generic title would be incorrect for the topic of the article. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 04:22, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
*:Meaning, you do not find BarrelProof's observations sufficient evidence that the term natively encompasses several mixes from several locations, indicating baseball rubbing mud mixes beyond just Lena Blackburne product. Mud is such an easily accessible and adoptable material and pitchers love to experiment for effect, I expect the Lena Blackburne permutation to be part a range of formal and informal colloquial mud mixes, with varying mud practices spread across the full geographic range that baseball enjoys. -- [[User:Paleorthid|Paleorthid]] ([[User talk:Paleorthid|talk]]) 21:01, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
*'''Move to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]''' and make it more generic. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 14:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
*First, the lede need to be "genericized" and a section created for the Blackburne brand, then '''Support moving to [[Baseball rubbing mud]]'''. Rgrds. --[[User:BX|BX]] ([[User talk:BX|talk]]) 18:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
