Talk:Cai Yan

=="Reason" or pretext?==

=="Reason" or pretext?==

The current text cites Chang et al (1999) to state "The reason Cao Cao wanted her back was that she was the only one remaining of her clan and he needed her to placate the spirits of her ancestors." As a "reason," this is not fully reconcilable with other historic records, such as the fact that Wenji's father had at least two other daughters, possibly a son. (See [[Cai Yong]].) One of the sisters was known to mother a few notable figures including [[Empress Dowager Yang Huiyu]] in subsequent Jin dynasty (whereas Wenji had no child fathered by a [[Han Chinese]], not even a Xiongnu born child who would be accompanying her home). If such sisters were not able to placate the spirits of their ancestors, Wenji would not be, either, because females were not considered direct posterity. At best, this could only be a pretext Cao gave to convince fellow ministers to justify the ransom. The word "reason" in this context implies, or at least suggests, true motivation. It is impossible that her other sisters marriages were unknown at the time of the ransom, because they couldn't have been married into notable families without their father's blessing. If ''pretext'' is too strong, ''justification Cao gave'' would be more neutral. I will hold on a change, though, till I see some existing research. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sillyvalley|Sillyvalley]] ([[User talk:Sillyvalley|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sillyvalley|contribs]]) 18:05, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

The current text cites Chang et al (1999) to state "The reason Cao Cao wanted her back was that she was the only one remaining of her clan and he needed her to placate the spirits of her ancestors." As a "reason," this is not fully reconcilable with other historic records, such as the fact that Wenji's father had at least two other daughters, possibly a son. (See [[Cai Yong]].) One of the sisters was known to mother a few notable figures including [[Empress Dowager Yang Huiyu]] in subsequent Jin dynasty (whereas Wenji had no child fathered by a [[Han Chinese]], not even a Xiongnu born child who would be accompanying her home). If such sisters were not able to placate the spirits of their ancestors, Wenji would not be, either, because females were not considered direct posterity. At best, this could only be a pretext Cao gave to convince fellow ministers to justify the ransom. The word "reason" in this context implies, or at least suggests, true motivation. It is impossible that her other sisters marriages were unknown at the time of the ransom, because they couldn't have been married into notable families without their father's blessing. If ''pretext'' is too strong, ''justification Cao gave'' would be more neutral. I will hold on a change, though, till I see some existing research. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sillyvalley|Sillyvalley]] ([[User talk:Sillyvalley|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sillyvalley|contribs]]) 18:05, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

==Wiki Education assignment: History of Modern East Asia==

{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Michigan,_Ann_Arbor/History_of_Modern_East_Asia_(Winter_2026) | assignments = [[User:TayDaidan|TayDaidan]] | start_date = 2026-01-07 | end_date = 2026-04-30 }}