Talk:Amphicyonidae

:Where did you get this idea? Carnivorans outcompeting Hyaenodonts more often than not has little to do with body size. Most of it comes down to the idea that Carnivorans outcompeted Hyaenodonts in mesocarnivorous niches, that's really it, it has nothing to do with Carnivorans all of a sudden growing large and outcompeting Hyaenodonts. Large Nimravids appearing before large Amphicyonids just proves that Amphicyonids are still one of the first lineages of Carnivorans to reach large sizes because other lineages reached large sizes during the Miocene, which again justifies why that sentence should be left up. [[User:Colossal Cheetah|Colossal Cheetah]] ([[User talk:Colossal Cheetah|talk]]) 15:01, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

:Where did you get this idea? Carnivorans outcompeting Hyaenodonts more often than not has little to do with body size. Most of it comes down to the idea that Carnivorans outcompeted Hyaenodonts in mesocarnivorous niches, that's really it, it has nothing to do with Carnivorans all of a sudden growing large and outcompeting Hyaenodonts. Large Nimravids appearing before large Amphicyonids just proves that Amphicyonids are still one of the first lineages of Carnivorans to reach large sizes because other lineages reached large sizes during the Miocene, which again justifies why that sentence should be left up. [[User:Colossal Cheetah|Colossal Cheetah]] ([[User talk:Colossal Cheetah|talk]]) 15:01, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

::"One of the first" implies that there were multiple lineages that became large at around the same time and that large carnivorans didn't exist before then, which is obviously not the case. @[[User:Colossal Cheetah|Colossal Cheetah]][[User:Formerlyanonymouseditor|Formerlyanonymouseditor]] ([[User talk:Formerlyanonymouseditor|talk]]) 15:18, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

::"One of the first" implies that there were multiple lineages that became large at around the same time and that large carnivorans didn't exist before then, which is obviously not the case. @[[User:Colossal Cheetah|Colossal Cheetah]][[User:Formerlyanonymouseditor|Formerlyanonymouseditor]] ([[User talk:Formerlyanonymouseditor|talk]]) 15:18, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

:::No it doesn't one of the first just means one of the first. Being a second lineage to be large apex predators still means one of the first groups to reach large sizes. Simultaneously would imply that they arose at the same time, which isn't true at all. Among the first acknowledges that Amphicyonids weren't the first Carnivoran lineage to reach large sizes, but they were still one of the earliest lineages. [[User:Colossal Cheetah|Colossal Cheetah]] ([[User talk:Colossal Cheetah|talk]]) 20:47, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

::There is a persistent pop culture narrative (at least as much as people talk about these animals) that amphicyonids were what paved the way for the rise of carnivorans by outcompeting hyaenodonts and entelodonts as top-order predators (mostly due to media influence) and being the first carnivorans to be apex predators, which obviously does not work because large apex predator carnivorans had been a thing for much longer than that. [[User:Formerlyanonymouseditor|Formerlyanonymouseditor]] ([[User talk:Formerlyanonymouseditor|talk]]) 15:20, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

::There is a persistent pop culture narrative (at least as much as people talk about these animals) that amphicyonids were what paved the way for the rise of carnivorans by outcompeting hyaenodonts and entelodonts as top-order predators (mostly due to media influence) and being the first carnivorans to be apex predators, which obviously does not work because large apex predator carnivorans had been a thing for much longer than that. [[User:Formerlyanonymouseditor|Formerlyanonymouseditor]] ([[User talk:Formerlyanonymouseditor|talk]]) 15:20, 20 April 2026 (UTC)