User talk:Katzrockso

::Looking further into it, it looks like the [[Bilu]] were primarily secular, but Baruch Kimmerling argued that they were more religiously motivated than politically motivated. [[Proto-Zionism]] also seems to be a mix between religious and secular. I think was I thinking of [[Proto-Zionism]] when I said it was more religious.

::Looking further into it, it looks like the [[Bilu]] were primarily secular, but Baruch Kimmerling argued that they were more religiously motivated than politically motivated. [[Proto-Zionism]] also seems to be a mix between religious and secular. I think was I thinking of [[Proto-Zionism]] when I said it was more religious.

::I'm not sure if the {{tq|"now lead Thodor Herzl"}} part of the lead is necessary. Herzl is considered to be the founder of Modern Zionism, and the lead doesn't indicate that there was another leader before him. Given that the article is primarily about Modern Zionism, I think just {{tq|led by Theodor Herzl}} would suffice. [[User:EaglesFan37|EaglesFan37]] ([[User talk:EaglesFan37|talk]]) 00:27, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

::I'm not sure if the {{tq|"now lead Thodor Herzl"}} part of the lead is necessary. Herzl is considered to be the founder of Modern Zionism, and the lead doesn't indicate that there was another leader before him. Given that the article is primarily about Modern Zionism, I think just {{tq|led by Theodor Herzl}} would suffice. [[User:EaglesFan37|EaglesFan37]] ([[User talk:EaglesFan37|talk]]) 00:27, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

:::@[[User:EaglesFan37|EaglesFan37]] Hello again. I apologize for my delay in responding, I forgot about this conversation.

:::{{tq|Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century}}. What would you propose changing this sentence to, if you think "emerged ... as a secular nationalist movement" is inaccurate. I do agree that it is a quite strict statement that is only (arguably) verified, by what I can tell, one of the sources cited; the Levine & Mossberg 2014 source;

:::{{bq|The parents of Zionism were not Judaism and tradition, but anti-Semitism and nationalism. The ideals of the French Revolution spread slowly across Europe, finally reaching the Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire and helping to set off the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment. This engendered a permanent split in the Jewish world, between those who held to a halachic or religious-centric vision of their identity and those who adopted in part the racial rhetoric of the time and made the Jewish people into a nation. This was helped along by the wave of pogroms in Eastern Europe that set two million Jews to flight; most wound up in America, but some chose Palestine. A driving force behind this was the Hovevei Zion movement, which worked from 1882 to develop a Hebrew identity that was distinct from Judaism as a religion}}

:::As for the Herzl thing, I'll have to look into it more. [[User:Katzrockso|Katzrockso]] ([[User talk:Katzrockso#top|talk]]) 00:02, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

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